Subjective Pg 73. Jason says, "Come on you coward." I just don't like this line. Said figure has kidnapped Ryan, and at least Jason thinks is the one who might have killed his mother. He's got to come back with something more serious than "coward." Something like "bastard" or "son of a bitch" or "piece of shit" I think would work better.
Super Subjective Comment. Pg 78. Okay, the way you still have Jason finding the picture telling him where to go is rather coincidental, because how exactly would Ryan know that Jason would go for the gun. That's not too much of a stretch but I still think it is. Perhaps, the picture message sent to Jason could be of Lindsay tied up, and since it's at the cliffs that could jog his memory, and/or before Jason is going to Ryan's grad party earlier, Ryan brings Jason an old book of photos that he was looking at, Jason then looks through it and sees the picture where they are at the park bench, and then you could put in a little flash to the earlier moment when Jason gets the text message. And I'm not saying it's instant. He'll have to think about it. So here's my chain of events. 1) Jason gets the text of the park bench (possibly with Lindsay tied up in it) - 2) He throws the phone and knocks over the knick-knacks, prompting him to look at an old photo of him, Ryan, and mom - 3) He goes to get the gun, it's not there, he runs upstairs - 4) While he's looking for the box cutter, he sees that the photos he was looking at earlier are still open on the bed, and sees the one of him, Ryan, and Mom at the bench. This might still be coincidental, it is, but I think it's better than him just finding the picture in the gun box, but that's just an opinion. And if you have Ryan showing him the book of pictures way earlier, that might be some good foreshadowing.
Pg 82. "mite" should be "might."
Subjective Pg 82-86 Ryan's whole confession kinds of seems to 70s 80s Bond Villainesque. His sarcasm in laying everything out just doesn't seem right for me, for where he's at right now. His sense of calm, I don't think is appropriate.
"Oh don’t look away now bro. This is where things get interesting."
That line is an example. I know he gets angry as the scene goes on, and I have no problem with him laying out everything right here, because this is where it has to happen, but I think his anger needs to boil over earlier. To Ryan, this is Jason's fault, his entire sad story. I think if Ryan would get up in Jason's face, get really emotional, because this is some serious stuff that Ryan is talking about. He's unstable, perhaps being sarcastic is his way to cope, but he has to UNLOAD on Jason, and the sarcasm I think takes away from the gravity of the information he's giving out.
More from me. They only let you have 4,096 words per comment apparently.
Pg 91. "gauges" should be "gouges."
Super Subjective Comment SHOWDOWN - When William shows up to the cliffs, does he know Ryan wants to kill him? If so, he needs BRING A WEAPON, I could see a guy like this carrying a gun with him. If he knows, he's not showing up unarmed. I have a sequence suggestion. What if William shows up, Ryan shoots William, Jason and Ryan wrestle, the gun goes flying, William gets up brandishing his own gun, he moves the brothers along with something like "We're going for a ride Jason, you're brother needs some serious help" which is a polite euphemism for "I'm gonna kill you." As they're walking to the car Thomas speeds up, hits William with his car, causing William's gun to go flying. Thomas gets out and wrestles with William. Jason and Ryan still fight for the gun. Then your little skirmishes can ensue and the ending happen.
I think one of the women needs to wield a gun at some point. I know they're wrestling with Ryan/Jason but they seem too dormant.
Also, the whole watch/cliff/falling to death thing is eerily similar to the ending of Die Hard. Something might have to be changed there.
Jason/Lindsay Reunion If Lindsay can't face Jason at the cliffs, how do the reunite in NYC. What has transpired between now and then? How do they reconcile. Perhaps she should go with him at the cliffs? I don't know.
Overall: You fixed all your old problems and you really only need some minor tweaks with this new stuff. It's really good. Most everyone of my comments is action related, except for the Ryan confession thing, so that just proves these character trajectories/interactions are terrifically on track. Good job.
Chrome and blogspot are conspiring against me: this is the third time i'm writing these comments... asdfhaksdhfkak.
so, okay, you've got a really great script. Its cool to see it all the way to the end, and I know most of the class has already expressed this, but the best thing its got going for it right now is the suspense. All through the second act the tension just wraps tighter and tighter and that's no easy feat brother. In addition you've got the framework for some really great characters and relationships that are just starting to bud in this draft- which is equally tricky to pull off.
Anyways, I know I skimped on the past few of your delivery cycles, so I'll start with addressing some questions I have from the earlier portions of your script and move forward from there.
To begin with, on pg 56 you begin this really great sequence with Lindsay and Jason breaking into the law office based on the blocked number's suggestions. There's alot to love about this stretch- Lindsay and Jason get alittle further into their relationship woes, there's some damn good writing and pacing with the security guard, you bring back the flashlight motif thingy and put Jason back to the night of his mother's murder...
But why don't they read the email???? without the email they gain absolutely nothing from this whole exchange that pushes the plot forward. Sure there's the deleted email that only slightly confirms their suspicions from before, but the scene isn't quite a red herring: its character impotence. With knowing the ending now, any actual evidence they find in William's office only makes Ryan's argument at the cliffs all the more reasonable, so i say have jason get a glimpse from that file that leads him to Thomas.
Speaking of which, that's my next point..
on 64 when Lindsay and Jason find Thomas at Lindsay's house I feel like i'm missing something. Why does Thomas act instantly apologetic, and how come Jason immediately starts punching him in the face? Those reactions make sense, but only AFTER Jason learns of Thomas's involvement in Jackie's murder. When they walk into the scene Thomas says something along the lines of "it isn't what you think!" as if they've caught him shredding documents or disposing of a body mid-act. Anyways, that left me confused.
Alright: now into your new stuff. I'm going to mirror Camiolo in his sentiment about Ryan's mad scientist speech. I think his motivations are spot on: wanting to get Jason out of his shell, wanting revenge for his mother's death, blaming his brother for a shitty childhood. That all makes sense and I really like it. What bothers me is the delivery. The tone, dialouge, and general mannerisms during this scene really clash with the rest of the writing in your script.
He needs to do a better job at explaining himself: maybe something like
RYAN: I didn't want you to find out about the truth like it was something you saw on the news, you had to see it for yourself." etc etc.
Also, I'm generally confused as to what Lindsay and Emily are doing in this scene. The way you describe Emily coming out of the shadows and Lindsay's nonchalant-ness when he's holding a knife to her throat makes it sound like they were in on it with Ryan. But then there are times when it seems like Ryan is holding them at gunpoint. Ryan explains himself well enough but what are Lindsay's motives for playing this game on Jason? How does he forgive her for it by the end of the movie? Does she want to kill William too? is she just trying to get Jason to be more active?? etc etc.
on 87 i feel like Jason needs to do something more dramatic when William appears. Ryan's crazy-speech makes us expect Jason to reproach him about the planned murder. After all, Ryan does sound like a madman. But the whole point of your third act seems to revolve around how far Jason will go on the revenge kick. Ryan's crazy, but it might be interesting to see Jason go along with it for awhile- what if Jason has the gun at the end of their fight, and when William appears he turns it on his father and starts asking questions?
The back and forth between Ryan's blood-thirsty quest for murder and Thomas's insistence on just getting him in jail is a balancing act that plays out really well inside Jason. My suggestion is to emphasize this even more. When William is dangling off the cliff holding onto Jason's watch, this is the Return of the Jedi throne room moment.
Happy ending... maybe i'm just misanthropic but...
no, I guess its nice to see Jason and Lindsay end up together. but I still feel like Lindsay's motives need to be clarified on the cliffs.
Moving forward I think the most important thing you can do would be to elaborate on Jason's character AFTER the death of his mother. You're climax rests so heavily on Ryan feeling Jason to be aloof and indifferent to his and his mother's misfortunes that it is incredibly important to emphasize this during that second graduation dinner sequence. i.e when being questioned about his plans, maybe there's more judgment being thrown around about why Jason hasn't done anything with his life since high school.
Really think about what Jason has done to make Ryan do this: that's the theme of your story. Why people do crazy, destructive things to the people they're supposed to love.
P.80 – “RYAN – Surprise!” – This line cheapens the moment imo. The audience and Jason just went through a complete mind-fuck put on by Ryan about a serious matter, I think Ryan not saying anything at first would be the most consistent with the set tone.
P. 81 – on the other hand, Jason’s reaction is in line.
P. 82 – “RYAN – finally. Some emotion. Didn’t know you had it in you.” – I know where Ryan is coming from, but he still seems abnormally hateful, even considering everything.
P. 82 -86 – Going off of last comment, Ryan seems psychotic (more-so than emotionally wrecked, although they both are linked to some degree)- I don’t know if this is what you’re going for, but it is coming off that way when I read it - all of which is something that I am unsure of. I think Ryan might need to be a little more sympathetic, as at at this point he seems to be an apple that fell close to the tree (in regards to William), and by this point in the script I think it might be muddling the established good and evil positions (which may or may not be a good thing).
ENDING – like the location (tie-in to their past, the cliff- infusion of suspense) and use of parallels (photo, watch, lamppost). I think this ending works definitely works better than your previous one, and does conclusively explain why Ryan kidnapped himself.
Additionally, I agree with Eric about the women being to stagnate. If you don’t want them wielding a gun or anything, they should join in on the action somehow, maybe hitting William as he strangles Ryan or fights with Thomas. Also, I think we need more description of Maria during this scene and what she is doing (regardless if she is just a bystander or not), is she holding camera? Or recording device?
Mike:
ReplyDeleteSubjective
Pg 73. Jason says, "Come on you coward." I just don't like this line. Said figure has kidnapped Ryan, and at least Jason thinks is the one who might have killed his mother. He's got to come back with something more serious than "coward." Something like "bastard" or "son of a bitch" or "piece of shit" I think would work better.
Super Subjective Comment.
Pg 78. Okay, the way you still have Jason finding the picture telling him where to go is rather coincidental, because how exactly would Ryan know that Jason would go for the gun. That's not too much of a stretch but I still think it is. Perhaps, the picture message sent to Jason could be of Lindsay tied up, and since it's at the cliffs that could jog his memory, and/or before Jason is going to Ryan's grad party earlier, Ryan brings Jason an old book of photos that he was looking at, Jason then looks through it and sees the picture where they are at the park bench, and then you could put in a little flash to the earlier moment when Jason gets the text message. And I'm not saying it's instant. He'll have to think about it. So here's my chain of events. 1) Jason gets the text of the park bench (possibly with Lindsay tied up in it) - 2) He throws the phone and knocks over the knick-knacks, prompting him to look at an old photo of him, Ryan, and mom - 3) He goes to get the gun, it's not there, he runs upstairs - 4) While he's looking for the box cutter, he sees that the photos he was looking at earlier are still open on the bed, and sees the one of him, Ryan, and Mom at the bench. This might still be coincidental, it is, but I think it's better than him just finding the picture in the gun box, but that's just an opinion. And if you have Ryan showing him the book of pictures way earlier, that might be some good foreshadowing.
Pg 82. "mite" should be "might."
Subjective
Pg 82-86
Ryan's whole confession kinds of seems to 70s 80s Bond Villainesque. His sarcasm in laying everything out just doesn't seem right for me, for where he's at right now. His sense of calm, I don't think is appropriate.
"Oh don’t look away now bro. This is where things get interesting."
That line is an example. I know he gets angry as the scene goes on, and I have no problem with him laying out everything right here, because this is where it has to happen, but I think his anger needs to boil over earlier. To Ryan, this is Jason's fault, his entire sad story. I think if Ryan would get up in Jason's face, get really emotional, because this is some serious stuff that Ryan is talking about. He's unstable, perhaps being sarcastic is his way to cope, but he has to UNLOAD on Jason, and the sarcasm I think takes away from the gravity of the information he's giving out.
More from me. They only let you have 4,096 words per comment apparently.
ReplyDeletePg 91. "gauges" should be "gouges."
Super Subjective Comment
SHOWDOWN - When William shows up to the cliffs, does he know Ryan wants to kill him? If so, he needs BRING A WEAPON, I could see a guy like this carrying a gun with him. If he knows, he's not showing up unarmed. I have a sequence suggestion. What if William shows up, Ryan shoots William, Jason and Ryan wrestle, the gun goes flying, William gets up brandishing his own gun, he moves the brothers along with something like "We're going for a ride Jason, you're brother needs some serious help" which is a polite euphemism for "I'm gonna kill you." As they're walking to the car Thomas speeds up, hits William with his car, causing William's gun to go flying. Thomas gets out and wrestles with William. Jason and Ryan still fight for the gun. Then your little skirmishes can ensue and the ending happen.
I think one of the women needs to wield a gun at some point. I know they're wrestling with Ryan/Jason but they seem too dormant.
Also, the whole watch/cliff/falling to death thing is eerily similar to the ending of Die Hard. Something might have to be changed there.
Jason/Lindsay Reunion
If Lindsay can't face Jason at the cliffs, how do the reunite in NYC. What has transpired between now and then? How do they reconcile. Perhaps she should go with him at the cliffs? I don't know.
Overall: You fixed all your old problems and you really only need some minor tweaks with this new stuff. It's really good. Most everyone of my comments is action related, except for the Ryan confession thing, so that just proves these character trajectories/interactions are terrifically on track. Good job.
I'll post your comments Mike later tonight or tmrw morning
ReplyDeleteChrome and blogspot are conspiring against me: this is the third time i'm writing these comments... asdfhaksdhfkak.
ReplyDeleteso, okay, you've got a really great script. Its cool to see it all the way to the end, and I know most of the class has already expressed this, but the best thing its got going for it right now is the suspense. All through the second act the tension just wraps tighter and tighter and that's no easy feat brother. In addition you've got the framework for some really great characters and relationships that are just starting to bud in this draft- which is equally tricky to pull off.
Anyways, I know I skimped on the past few of your delivery cycles, so I'll start with addressing some questions I have from the earlier portions of your script and move forward from there.
To begin with, on pg 56 you begin this really great sequence with Lindsay and Jason breaking into the law office based on the blocked number's suggestions. There's alot to love about this stretch- Lindsay and Jason get alittle further into their relationship woes, there's some damn good writing and pacing with the security guard, you bring back the flashlight motif thingy and put Jason back to the night of his mother's murder...
But why don't they read the email???? without the email they gain absolutely nothing from this whole exchange that pushes the plot forward. Sure there's the deleted email that only slightly confirms their suspicions from before, but the scene isn't quite a red herring: its character impotence. With knowing the ending now, any actual evidence they find in William's office only makes Ryan's argument at the cliffs all the more reasonable, so i say have jason get a glimpse from that file that leads him to Thomas.
Speaking of which, that's my next point..
on 64 when Lindsay and Jason find Thomas at Lindsay's house I feel like i'm missing something. Why does Thomas act instantly apologetic, and how come Jason immediately starts punching him in the face? Those reactions make sense, but only AFTER Jason learns of Thomas's involvement in Jackie's murder. When they walk into the scene Thomas says something along the lines of "it isn't what you think!" as if they've caught him shredding documents or disposing of a body mid-act. Anyways, that left me confused.
Alright: now into your new stuff. I'm going to mirror Camiolo in his sentiment about Ryan's mad scientist speech. I think his motivations are spot on: wanting to get Jason out of his shell, wanting revenge for his mother's death, blaming his brother for a shitty childhood. That all makes sense and I really like it. What bothers me is the delivery. The tone, dialouge, and general mannerisms during this scene really clash with the rest of the writing in your script.
He needs to do a better job at explaining himself: maybe something like
i get to do multiple comments too!
ReplyDeleteRYAN: I didn't want you to find out about the truth like it was something you saw on the news, you had to see it for yourself." etc etc.
Also, I'm generally confused as to what Lindsay and Emily are doing in this scene. The way you describe Emily coming out of the shadows and Lindsay's nonchalant-ness when he's holding a knife to her throat makes it sound like they were in on it with Ryan. But then there are times when it seems like Ryan is holding them at gunpoint. Ryan explains himself well enough but what are Lindsay's motives for playing this game on Jason? How does he forgive her for it by the end of the movie? Does she want to kill William too? is she just trying to get Jason to be more active?? etc etc.
on 87 i feel like Jason needs to do something more dramatic when William appears. Ryan's crazy-speech makes us expect Jason to reproach him about the planned murder. After all, Ryan does sound like a madman. But the whole point of your third act seems to revolve around how far Jason will go on the revenge kick. Ryan's crazy, but it might be interesting to see Jason go along with it for awhile- what if Jason has the gun at the end of their fight, and when William appears he turns it on his father and starts asking questions?
The back and forth between Ryan's blood-thirsty quest for murder and Thomas's insistence on just getting him in jail is a balancing act that plays out really well inside Jason. My suggestion is to emphasize this even more. When William is dangling off the cliff holding onto Jason's watch, this is the Return of the Jedi throne room moment.
Happy ending... maybe i'm just misanthropic but...
no, I guess its nice to see Jason and Lindsay end up together. but I still feel like Lindsay's motives need to be clarified on the cliffs.
Moving forward I think the most important thing you can do would be to elaborate on Jason's character AFTER the death of his mother. You're climax rests so heavily on Ryan feeling Jason to be aloof and indifferent to his and his mother's misfortunes that it is incredibly important to emphasize this during that second graduation dinner sequence. i.e when being questioned about his plans, maybe there's more judgment being thrown around about why Jason hasn't done anything with his life since high school.
Really think about what Jason has done to make Ryan do this: that's the theme of your story. Why people do crazy, destructive things to the people they're supposed to love.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteP.80 – “RYAN – Surprise!” – This line cheapens the moment imo. The audience and Jason just went through a complete mind-fuck put on by Ryan about a serious matter, I think Ryan not saying anything at first would be the most consistent with the set tone.
ReplyDeleteP. 81 – on the other hand, Jason’s reaction is in line.
P. 82 – “RYAN – finally. Some emotion. Didn’t know you had it in you.” – I know where Ryan is coming from, but he still seems abnormally hateful, even considering everything.
P. 82 -86 – Going off of last comment, Ryan seems psychotic (more-so than emotionally wrecked, although they both are linked to some degree)- I don’t know if this is what you’re going for, but it is coming off that way when I read it - all of which is something that I am unsure of. I think Ryan might need to be a little more sympathetic, as at at this point he seems to be an apple that fell close to the tree (in regards to William), and by this point in the script I think it might be muddling the established good and evil positions (which may or may not be a good thing).
ENDING – like the location (tie-in to their past, the cliff- infusion of suspense) and use of parallels (photo, watch, lamppost). I think this ending works definitely works better than your previous one, and does conclusively explain why Ryan kidnapped himself.
Additionally, I agree with Eric about the women being to stagnate. If you don’t want them wielding a gun or anything, they should join in on the action somehow, maybe hitting William as he strangles Ryan or fights with Thomas. Also, I think we need more description of Maria during this scene and what she is doing (regardless if she is just a bystander or not), is she holding camera? Or recording device?